Mike Mullane - Normalisation of deviance - IAFF - Part 1
Why Hacker News recommends it
HN commenters cite it whenever a thread involves ignored warnings, shortcuts or routine risk, as the clearest introduction to the concept.
What it is
Astronaut Mike Mullane explains normalisation of deviance, where teams gradually come to accept violations of their own safety standards. He uses the Challenger shuttle disaster as the main case, drawing on NASA's ignored warnings before the launch. It is the first part of a talk given to a fire-fighters' association.
Recommended by 4 HN commenters across 4 different months, 2018 to 2022.
What Hacker News said
Strong rec christophilus · 2019-02 · on “Normalization of Deviance”
Here is an excellent talk on this subject[0]. It's one of the few presentations I like to watch every once in a while. [0] [this video]
Recommends Sidnicious · 2018-05 · on “Internal Documents Show Apple Knew the iPhone 6 Would Bend”
Mike Mullane’s “Normalisation of Deviance” talk to a group of firefighters[1] is relevant here. He describes how the Challenger shuttle disaster happened despite internal memos about the problem years prior. The message of the talk is, essentially, that a person or team can get used to ignoring their own standards when under pressure. [1]: [this video]
Recommends y04nn · 2021-07 · on “The risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan”
I like the term "normalization of deviance" and would recommand the Mike Mullane's talk on the Challenger disaster [1]. [1]: [this video]
Recommends slackerlol · 2022-07 · on “Keep calm and use the runbook”
The “preventable mistakes” point reminds me of this great video about “normalization of deviance” [from routine/checklists] [this video]
Cites lamontcg · 2021-03 · on “Overnight Pizza and the Consistent Unreliability of Expert Guidelines”
> In fact the "hick" position is the scientific one. If someone eats unrefrigerated pizza ten times without any Adverse Events, then in fact that's an experiment providing (admittedly crude) scientific data I'm going to strenuously disagree with this one. "I've done it 10 times and it has been fine for me" is the logic behind the normalization of deviance and the Shuttle disasters and (in my world) cave diving fatalities: [this video] As a cave diver I also see this leading to fatalities where divers cut corners on the rules of cave diving, see no immediate consequences and continue to do so up until they wind up dead some day (there are often very binary outcomes for breaking the rules in cave d
Cites lamontcg · 2022-01 · on “‘I felt powerless – so I started filming’: CyclingMikey vs. dangerous drivers”
> If you just use them all the time, you don't have to remember to use them in the right situation. I know of dead cave divers who followed protocols only when they really needed to and then one day made a category error and didn't follow the protocol when they really needed to. I've gotten crap for following through the motions of protocols when they I "didn't need to" but if you do it all the time then you never make those kinds of category errors. There's no downside to always following protocols, there's high downside for making category errors that you wouldn't make if you just always followed protocols. Similarly you should always use your parking brake, even if you are on flat ground
Cites lamontcg · 2022-02 · on “Tesla to recall vehicles that may disobey stop signs”
> A human breaks the rolling stop rule on a case by case basis and is responsible for the consequences Not really. You can fail to see a pedestrian and cripple them and you won't see a whole lot of consequences for your "accident" (negligence). Breaking rules on a case-by-case basis is also how the normalization of deviance occurs: [this video] If you break rules when you think you don't need to follow them you'll find that you're not 99.9% perfect and you will inevitably cause a crash. If you follow the rules all the time you won't make that error. The reason why computers should ultimately replace human drivers is precisely because we're dangerously incompetent and overconfident and shouldn't b
Cites lamontcg · 2022-02 · on “Tesla to recall vehicles that may disobey stop signs”
You're just encouraging the normalization of deviance. "Everyone does it". [this video] You can get away with it a hundred times, or a thousand times, but eventually you'll be tired and do it and clobber a pedestrian you didn't see because "you were tired" (so its not your fault, even though it 100% is). Stop thinking the way you do and stop being one of the 88% of American drivers who think they're above average. Follow the goddamn rules because you're not 99.99% perfect and its the .01% that is going to hurt someone else. And "I see the police doing it all the time" clearly isn't the right moral barometer, if you haven't been paying attention.